same thing with dick cheney and george w. bush. just psychologically it's like dick cheney was the grandfather that's been around for a couple times. back to romney. the question is, whether or not vice president biden will make a gaffe or if congressman ryan will say something that's so outlandish like the 47% that would be a game changer. that most likely won't happen. >> like the 30% he's already said? >> that doesn't -- >> it feels to me like the issue is do no harm. the question, the game changer is the -- >> the game changer is to the negative. doing harm. >> he has plenty, ryan has plenty of his own statements to defend. there could be an interesting dynamic where he spirals into defense of the many ludicrous and inaccurate things he's said where biden has more experience and a very clear agenda staying boiled to the president. you know, there is a little bit of a wildcard. maybe not a huge one. but ryan is smart. but also very self-centered. so he could get really caught up. >> i wonder, is there an actual skill to being a